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In this video, I interview Mack B. with Musician Guidance to discuss how indie music artists can "make it" in the new music industry, and actually go full-time.
We cover the strategies, mindsets, and concepts that will help you build a successful music career.
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0:33 - How to break into the music industry
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0:00
What is the biggest thing holding music artists back from achieving a livable income from their
0:04
music? And more importantly, how can you actually overcome these obstacles and get on the path
0:09
towards success? Well, I discuss all of this and much more with Mac B, the founder of Musician
0:14
Guidance, which is a program dedicated to helping indie artists reach their goals through education
0:20
mentorship, community, and connections. I had a great time talking with Mac and learned a lot
0:24
about how to get on that path towards success as an indie music artist, and I'm sure that you
0:29
will learn a lot as well. All right, let's get into the content. So welcome to the channel
0:35
Max. So great to have you here. Thank you for agreeing to do this talk with me. And so we're
0:41
going to be talking all about how indie music artists can succeed in this new music industry
0:46
But before we do that, Max, why don't you just introduce yourself and share with us a little bit
0:51
about your background? Definitely. Before I get into that, though, I do just want to thank you
0:56
for having me on board. We've obviously connected. I'm super excited to do this. I'm only on the
1:00
other side. So it's great to be on this side. And also, yeah. And also I do want to say my voice
1:06
I'm losing it. So there's going to be voice cracks. So if you are watching this comment
1:10
how many you think there's going to be below, I'm going to guess seven. That's totally fine. I do that all the time in my videos. I'll have to
1:17
I usually edit those out though. So I might have some, I don't have an excuse. I'm just
1:21
regoing through puberty or something exactly but yeah so my name is Mac I'm the founder and CEO of
1:28
musician guidance that's kind of a fancy title but before that kind of became a thing I was lucky
1:34
enough to work in the music industry in quite a few different areas and the entertainment industry
1:40
too so I've been lucky enough to tour I've managed a k-pop artist I ran quite a few social pages for
1:47
artists and help them develop their brand and identity. And then I also worked with an A&R to
1:53
scout new talent. So that's kind of what I've done professionally in the music industry. And personally, though, big soccer fan and love traveling
2:01
Okay, wow, that's really interesting. I didn't realize you had such an extensive
2:05
kind of background in the traditional music industry. How did you kind of first get involved
2:10
with that? A lot of it came with outreach. So basically, at the beginning of COVID, you know
2:16
I lost my job as I'm sure a lot of people did. And so that's kind of when I started diving into the music industry because I was going
2:24
through tough times and I'm not a musician myself, but really just listening to music
2:28
helped me so much. And that's kind of how musician guidance came to be, but we can get more into that later
2:33
But I just started connecting with people. And then one thing led to another, built some great relationships and got job offers and
2:40
took them all. I wanted experience in it because I felt like this was something that I wanted to pursue
2:46
So I just said yes to everything, went down a crazy rabbit hole of jobs and opportunities, but learned a lot
2:52
And here I am today. Okay. So you just kind of just reached out to people and just kind of put yourself out there
2:59
Wow. Okay. So that shows the power of just reaching out and asking. So then from there, how did you transition into starting musician guidance
3:07
And what is musician guidance kind of all about? Sure. So I wish it was something cool or something quick, but it was quite a lengthy process
3:15
as I'm sure you can kind of pick up based off kind of a rabbit hole of jobs I jumped through
3:21
But as I said, music helped me through tough times. And at the same time, I had really close
3:26
friends who were independent artists and really struggling to break through into the industry
3:31
And just knowing how much music helped me, and yet how hard it was for artists to break through
3:36
I just wanted to see if I could help them. But I didn't have a single connection in music industry
3:42
at the time before I took these jobs. So what I had to do is I had to cold call. I did a lot of
3:49
cold calling, emailing, messaging on Instagram, trying to build any connection I could, sharing
3:56
my vision. And eventually I got about two professionals that aligned with my vision of
4:00
wanting to help professionals or sorry, wanting to help aspiring musicians achieve their dream
4:05
With two professionals, though, we weren't able to offer everyone guidance. So what I did initially
4:11
was I was running online music competitions and I was rewarding the winner with professional
4:16
guidance from these two contacts I recently built a connection with. And that was great
4:22
but we could only reward the winner. So every entrant that didn't win could still be falling
4:29
into industry traps or spending their time and money on things that are never going to get them
4:34
to where they want to be. And that's what I wanted to do. I wanted to help everyone. And in order to
4:39
do that I basically knew I had to form more connections so I went back to the drawing board
4:43
went back to sending emails calling professionals etc sharing my vision and for those that had a
4:51
similar vision brought them on board you know teamed up with them and then that's kind of how
4:56
musician guidance then formed now. Wow that's pretty remarkable I don't I mean I've done a
5:01
little bit of cold calling and and that's not that's not an easy uh job it's pretty that can
5:07
be pretty painful at times but it's amazing you stuck with that and actually produced some pretty
5:12
amazing results and actually put together this resource musician guidance which has a whole bunch
5:17
of um contacts where it just gives basically how would you i guess how would you summarize what
5:22
musician guidance is now for someone that doesn't know definitely um in essence it's a platform that
5:30
helps independent artists succeed by providing them the resources that they need so that could be
5:35
one-on-one mentoring from, you know, we have Grammy winners, celebrity coaches, producers
5:41
songwriters, managers, A&Rs, publishers, or it could be getting your song featured to a couple
5:48
million people, or it could be, you know, our forte is focusing on the music business
5:55
So we'll provide you, you know, even email templates to send out to producers or to send
6:00
out to bloggers to get featured or to send out to music supervisors, et cetera. And then we'll do
6:05
reviews on your EPK, your marketing plan to help you create a bulletproof plan that will actually
6:12
help you along in your career. And then as you said, industry contacts too. Right. Yeah. All that
6:18
stuff has really blew me away when I checked out the membership, just all the resources was a lot
6:23
more than I was expecting. It's just chock full of value. All right. So with that in mind now
6:29
let's get big picture. So why do so few music artists succeed in this music industry? What's
6:36
preventing people from having success? Definitely. And I think if I were to
6:41
pinpoint it to one thing, I don't think it's that artists are not achieving success. I think it's
6:46
that the industry pressures them into thinking that if they have not sold 100 million records
6:51
or if they are not an international singer at the age of 18, or if they're not signed to a major
6:55
label making millions of dollars by the time they're in their 20s that they have failed and
7:00
it's just so wrong but it's it's what we all believe i want to say because we're being you
7:08
know that narrative is being pushed upon artists every day but i think there are artists every day
7:13
that you know want to get 15 people at their next concert or they want to land a sync deal
7:18
and they achieving that but it just not the success that the false success that the industry wants them to believe if that makes any sense Yeah that right in line with what I talk a lot about actually
7:31
We kind of have two ideas of what a music artist is
7:36
There's what I say is kind of like the top 1%, which are like pop stars and people you hear on the radio and you see on TV and everyone you know
7:45
And then there's the broke, starving artist. Those are the only two kinds of music artists you can be, right
7:51
But actually, that's a myth. You have this emerging middle class, which I think is really exciting
7:57
And what I think musician guidance really fits into, it's helping that middle class emerge
8:01
where you can actually make a great income, have great success in the music industry
8:06
even if most people don't know about you, right? People in your specific genre or niche of music will know about you
8:13
But you're right. That's totally achievable and obtainable. And I definitely think that's really exciting
8:20
And that with this new age, we're in a new music industry, really
8:24
from what it used to be, we're in this digital world with online and everything. There's so much opportunity
8:29
So I really thought that was cool you put it that way. And even piggybacking off that
8:33
like I'm sure you've heard of the 1000 fan rule. Yeah. For those who haven't, it's you ultimately need 1000 true fans
8:39
to make a living off your career. And by true fans, I mean, those that will buy your merchandise
8:44
buy tickets to your gig, et cetera. and I don't care if you're like 10 years old or 80 years young you're able to get a thousand fans
8:52
with hard work and make a living off music for sure so yeah that's yeah I forget who originally
8:59
came up with that but that is so true and that applies in really any area but especially in the
9:04
arts and in music yeah it's such a seems like such a small number but it really right if they all yeah
9:09
a true fan is someone that is so excited about you'll go buy just about anything you put out or
9:14
sign up for your fan club and that can add up to like a hundred dollars over the course of a year
9:19
a thousand fans that's six figures a year which is pretty good income exactly and sure it's not
9:23
easy we're probably we're definitely making it sound easier than it is but at the same time it's
9:27
definitely doable right yeah so yeah it takes hard work but yeah it's definitely more achievable
9:32
you don't have to become this huge pop star there you go become famous to be successful at all so
9:37
yeah so exactly so then with that in mind what would you say is the biggest thing holding artists
9:43
back from achieving this kind of goal you know a livable income or entering the middle class of
9:49
music artists definitely I think it's not knowing exactly what they want I would I always encourage
9:57
artists to plan out exactly what they want and how they're going to achieve it so for example if you
10:03
want a record deal great but what's the step before getting that record deal maybe it's releasing
10:09
four singles and an EP in the same year to show the label that you can release music consistently
10:16
and then what's the step before that maybe it is putting on 12 gigs in a year and then what's the
10:22
step before that maybe it's reaching 10,000 social followers I think if we plan I think if artists
10:27
plan out exactly what they want there'll be less sitting there twiddling their thumbs and more
10:32
having something to continuously work towards and then also when you have those mini goals to
10:39
work towards that big dream, I also encourage them to set out like a to-do list almost of each day
10:46
a to-do list for each day on how they're actually going to achieve that mini goal and make it measurable. So you can hold yourself accountable. I see artists saying, I want to
10:55
increase my following, but they don't set, they don't make it measurable. So if they don't make
11:00
it measurable, if they get one follower in six months, they technically achieve their goal
11:04
but that's not going to help them along in their career. Whereas if they set a goal of 10,000
11:09
followers to achieve by it's May 10th, let's say August 1st. Now they have something to work
11:14
towards. They have a sense of urgency to achieve it and they know exactly what it is. It's 10,000
11:19
followers. So just by having that clarity in what they want, they're more able to set goals to reach
11:26
it. I know I went on a tangent there and I didn't make sense, but I hope I got, I hope at least one
11:31
person. That's really good. What I hear you saying is set tangible goals and then reverse engineer
11:38
on what are the actual steps you need to take to hit that goal. And yeah, there's so many definitions of what success is in the music industry
11:47
for each individual person. There's a lot of different paths you can take, like you mentioned, like getting sync deals or maybe it's just building up a bunch of followers
11:54
getting them in a fan club or something. So yeah, so setting that path, what's your first step going to be towards
11:59
getting to a point where you are going full-time in your music
12:03
or whatever it is your goal is, and then reverse engineering that and then actually taking daily action yeah and planning it on oh yeah yeah it's like i think
12:12
that's really good that's a really good um plan to follow for for an indie artist what would you
12:17
say is your biggest piece of advice you would give to a music artist that that maybe they
12:23
they're following that plan they've kind of they have reverse engineered you know what their goal
12:27
is now how do they go after that right yeah i guess i would say never give up but at the same
12:37
time stop doing what isn't working i know people always say keep at it it will eventually work
12:44
and i just completely disagree with that i think if you're doing something completely wrong the
12:49
more you do it it's not going to eventually work out like one plus one is never going to equal three
12:53
I don't care how many times you write that down on a paper piece of paper so what I would suggest is
12:59
yes don't give up but pivot if something isn't working you know pivot or adapt to trends I don't
13:07
think the problem is a lack of persistence or determination I just think it's a lack of direction
13:13
so if if you're wanting to get 10,000 followers and what you're doing now isn't working and maybe
13:20
now you're you know spamming your let's say you want 10 000 streams you're spamming your song
13:24
your spotify link to 10 000 people and it's just not working then um just switch it up try you know
13:33
reaching out to 100 curators and try getting your song placed on playlists that will get you those
13:40
10 000 streams in an easier way maybe right yeah definitely you do see a lot of that maybe it's
13:47
It's, you know, outdated teaching that's out there, you know, on how to go about doing something
13:53
And yeah, you got to be continually to evaluate on, I think on top of that is also tracking
13:59
your results. Because if you're not really tracking what your number one, your activity, and then you
14:04
have number two, your results, you can't really know if it's working or not sometimes
14:09
Right. So if you're aware of what's your results are, how much, you know, action you're taking
14:14
what are the results that's getting, then you can, yeah, make that pivot. and that's for sure important to do is not keep going on a ship that's sinking and exactly that
14:22
switch and like i know when artists came to me the other day and he said i put 1500 into this song
14:29
my goal is to get 10 000 streams from it and 10 000 streams sure that's great that's a huge
14:34
accomplishment i don't want to take anything away from that but what are you what's that artist
14:37
making off 10 000 streams 40 bucks maybe something so yeah something small i got a calculator I created a Spotify calculator and it yeah it a little it can be a little depressing when you see those numbers Exactly So if you are wanting to achieve that income in music switch and what you doing is not working we switch it up Maybe instead
15:00
of focusing on 10,000 streams, focusing on selling 50 t-shirts, right? Because your profit margin
15:06
is greater on those and that might get you closer to that 1500. Definitely. Yeah. And so then maybe
15:14
we can get a little bit more practical on this too. And what would you say is something that
15:19
artists can do so that they can actually start to achieve their goals and hit whatever their big
15:25
dream is with their music? In terms of income or? Yeah, I think that's, I mean, I mean, I can't
15:32
speak for all artists, but I think for myself, I think a lot of people I know, it's just being able
15:37
to make a living from music so that you can work on your music full time. And I think that's kind of
15:44
the the big dream I think for most people I mean just you can have the bigger dreams than that but
15:49
I think that's kind of like the baseline I know I see a lot a lot of yeah a lot of artists have so
15:53
then so yeah so what are some maybe practical things because I think we've talked kind of more
15:58
broadly on what the path is but what would you say are some maybe practical
16:02
more strategic steps that someone can take to achieve that I'd say it's definitely focus on
16:11
the business side of it one thing I always say is create music with your heart but sell it with
16:16
your head I think artists are right now a lot of the unsuccessful ones in terms of making a living
16:25
off their music are promoting it with their heart saying you know I put two years my life into this
16:30
song please stream it means the world that might work with some people but I think if they they
16:36
take a step back and they learn the marketing side of it they learn how to create you know a hook
16:41
how to create a message for the song how to deliver value and then provide that solid call
16:47
to action they're they're able to actually get people build hype around the song and get people
16:52
wanting to listen to it for themselves rather than just wanting to support you at the end of the day
16:57
i think there's no shortage of music i think on spotify it's like 40 to 60 000 songs uploaded a
17:04
day. So as a listener, we have options. So you have to ultimately sell your song to on why we
17:11
should, why someone should stream it. And I think to do that, it's very important to focus on what
17:16
the listener will get from it. So what I would suggest to be more specific here is know what your
17:24
song is and know what it can do. So let's say I couldn't give an example for everything here
17:29
but let's say it's a song that will help someone through a breakup. We'll let them know that
17:34
So with the hook, you can have something like going through a breakup
17:39
Well, yes, I am. So now I'm interested. And then you can have a value piece of then this song will help you stream it now
17:46
Well, now I'm like, I'm going through a breakup. You know, I'm sad. This song just told me it's going to help me through some of what could be the darkest
17:53
times of my life, right? So I'm going to stream that song. You better believe it. And then from that, or in addition to that, I'll say always provide a next step that you
18:03
want someone to take. So if they stream your song, don't have that at dead end. Maybe on your Spotify
18:09
page, have a link back to your Instagram page. And then on your Instagram page, when you post
18:15
something, maybe have a carousel that you provide. Let's say you're doing an original song. Great
18:21
You provide a clip of your original song, and then they can swipe that says, follow me on TikTok
18:26
So then boom, now you click through to their TikTok. Now they have some behind the scenes
18:30
music on your TikTok. And then at the end of the TikTok video, it says, visit my website
18:35
Now I'll click through to your website where I can buy your merchandise. And then when you buy
18:39
the merchandise, send them an email that says, thank you for purchasing. Just so you know
18:45
I'm going on tour. Would you like to buy tickets? Click here to buy tickets. So just always providing that next route. One thing I preach is that no one should be two clicks away from
18:58
supporting you, whether that's two clicks away to your Patreon, two clicks away to your website
19:02
two clicks away to your Spotify, whatever interaction they have with you online
19:06
they should always be within a couple of clicks of being able to support you
19:10
Right. Yeah. So that's a really big topic, getting into the business side of music. And
19:18
my background is digital marketing. But for a lot of music artists, that's kind of a foreign
19:23
concept and the whole idea of marketing or selling kind of sounds dirty to some people
19:28
No, for sure. Yeah, it's a little icky. And so maybe you have something you can say about that. But the way I
19:36
think about marketing is you're really just providing solutions to people. You're providing
19:41
what they need. Like you mentioned with your song, it helps someone through a breakup. You're
19:46
showing how it provides value. And so in the marketing industry, if you're selling a product
19:51
you're just talking about here's how here's the solutions it provides for you and so you want to
19:55
take that same approach with your music and so it doesn't have to be a dirty thing or feel icky
20:02
you're just thinking about how does how can i communicate how my music is providing value to
20:08
people right go deeper than just oh it sounds good right exactly it sounds good about it like
20:14
i hope it sounds good right so yeah so that's really good that you dive deeper into that subject
20:19
yeah and also your fans are your fans for a reason they like what you're doing so don't think you're
20:25
ever bombarding them with like too much content or an offer like they're following you for a reason
20:32
they like what you're doing they want to support you right and then going back to your your two
20:37
clicks away um concept i really like that because again going back to the the marketing world what
20:43
you're talking about with having that call to action call you know instructing your fans to
20:48
go to the next step, what that concept is, is it's called referred to as creating micro
20:54
transactions. So you're getting people to say yes. And the more people say yes to you
21:00
then when you say, Hey, buy my album, buy my merch, whatever, they're more likely to continue
21:05
to say yes. Cause they've been doing that through the process. And it's not manipulative at all
21:09
because you're, you're getting them into your world. They're getting to know more about you
21:13
in your music. And so now they're more invested in you and they're more willing to then
21:17
yeah, I want to support this artist. I want to buy their merch because again
21:21
if you're following that business approach, you can also talk about how that t-shirt is providing
21:27
value or whatever the item is. And so then you're actually providing value to your fans
21:34
It's not just, oh, I'm a starving artist. Help me out. No, you're actually getting value out of
21:40
what you're offering to them. So that's really good. And you summarize that perfectly. That's exactly what it is
21:46
okay yeah so yeah so focus on the business side of your music right really learn marketing learn
21:54
how to build up that loyal following and once you have that audience then that's then you can sell
22:00
just about anything to them and also forming strategic partnerships like I think collaborations
22:06
are key and super easy to do especially with everything online now and probably will be even after COVID I think online is still going to be I mean we definitely not going back to like books and stuff but I mean I think online will continue to be bigger than it would have been without COVID Oh yeah Yeah And I mean you
22:25
think more people across the world are coming online all the time, right? There's still large
22:30
sections of the world that aren't on the internet yet, but that's changing. Um, right. Who knows
22:35
what Elon Musk with his Starlink internet, you know, satellite internet's gonna do for the
22:41
for bringing more people online. Uh, I got tons of people in my audience from, you know, Africa
22:46
and all over the world. And so there's continually growing music market and more people coming
22:51
online. So yeah, we're still at the kind of beginning of the golden age, I would say
22:56
Um, I would agree. Yeah. So that's really exciting. And so especially like the reaching
23:01
out like you like you mentioned just reaching out to people and um trying to collaborate i think
23:06
that's one of the best ways to actually grow and that's what i liked one thing i really liked about
23:10
i mean that's maybe not the flashiest part of the musician guidance program because right you can get
23:15
the shout out and um you can get help from industry experts which is you know great but just those
23:23
scripts that you included on how to just contact different people in industry on your own and kind
23:28
of start to build those connections i thought was really valuable um and so then bridging off of
23:33
that how would you say in your own words how musician guidance can then help artists reach
23:38
the goals that we've talked about you know get to the point where they're making be able to go
23:43
full-time with their music or just whatever is successful for them whatever they say is success
23:47
how does how can musician guidance help those indie artists reach their goals right so so no
23:54
two artists are the same. And that's what I like about what we do. And obviously I'm totally biased
23:59
in this, but what we do is we listen to the artists first. We listen to what their goals are
24:04
because as we touched upon, not everyone wants to sell 100 million records. Some people want 15
24:09
people at their next show. So we listen to what they want, and then we match them with the resources
24:13
to help them achieve that. So if they want, if they just want song exposure, great, we'll direct
24:19
them to our TikTok feature where they can reach, I think it's 2.1 or 2.2 million people right now
24:25
Or if they're just starting out in music and they don't really know the fundamentals of
24:29
you know, how they can monetize their music, then we'll provide them, we'll direct them to
24:34
our starter pack where they can get music business knowledge, still some personalized mentoring and still the ability to get their song featured on our Instagram page. And then if
24:43
they're kind of further along in their career or at the stage where they're ready to invest
24:48
then that's where we would direct them to one-on-one mentoring where they can chat with
24:53
professional music marketers you know professional um producers record label executives so if they
25:00
want a record deal for example great go and chat with this record label a and r he'll share with
25:05
you what he personally looks for in artists and what labels look for an artist and if if you're
25:11
the right fit he he does have the connections to even you know sign you or refer you to someone
25:16
else who can and that's pretty neat yeah and as you touched on connections i think that's huge
25:21
and especially in the in rec with record deals there's less and less accepting you know unsolicited
25:27
material you you almost need someone now to refer you or to walk you in the door of a label
25:33
and and that's something that is more in the back end of what we do more it would it's more of
25:39
mentoring but at the same time this artist is an a and r they are looking for artists so if you do
25:46
match what the label is looking for, then why would they not, you know, pursue that? So, yeah, I mean, I mean, I just, I posted a video already on my channel, kind of walking
25:54
through musician guidance and I saw that. I appreciate that. I saw that the other day
25:58
I didn't, I appreciate that. Yeah. Yeah. So the way I kind of titled the video was just like, here's how you can get instant industry connections
26:06
And right. You're the one that kind of did all the legwork, right
26:10
Reached out to all these people, had to build up this kind of community. And so if you become a member of musician guidance, you kind of get to benefit from that because it's like, boom, you immediately kind of get in a circle of people that have influence in the industry
26:25
And like you said, it's very flexible and customizable based on what your goals are
26:30
And so that's what I really liked about it. And I thought it looks really awesome. It's a really great resource for people if they want to, you know, further their music career
26:40
I appreciate that. And also every connection has a thousand connections of their own
26:44
So you're not just building a one connection. You're opening a door to many more. Right
26:49
Yeah. That's that ripple effect of when you work with, I guess, influencer marketing would
26:54
be kind of the marketing term. But yeah, having those connections is really awesome
26:59
And so speaking to that, then what are some results that members of musician guidance have
27:06
been getting? Sure. So clients of our mentors have gone on to land as runners up on global music competitions or even win
27:19
We had one win the Voice UK. They've also landed major recording contracts, land sync deals, achieve millions of streams, etc
27:27
Now, granted, those are the sexy results. Those are what are advertised. And they have happened
27:32
But obviously, that's not going to happen for every artist. Mostly because not every artist wants that
27:37
you know, some want just to get 10,000 streams. So, and obviously success cannot be guaranteed
27:45
but what I will say is when we know your musical, we do our darn tootin' best to make sure you achieve it
27:52
because when you succeed, we succeed. That's really cool, man. So, wow, that kind of shows the full range
27:59
of what's possible with this kind of mentorship and the connections that are available to you
28:05
So that's really exciting. Like I said, if musician guidance, this sounds like something you want to try, then you can just click my link in the description below or go to Orpheus Audio Academy dot com slash guidance and you can get a free trial for three days
28:20
Is that correct? Three day free trial. So you can check it out, see if it's for you and take advantage of all this amazing resources that are available to you
28:30
So I guess with that, any final words or pieces of advice that you would share with indie music artists
28:38
Just keep making music. Keep following your dreams. Keep working hard. Never give up
28:43
But again, if it's not working, stop and pivot. But yeah, keep pursuing your dreams
28:49
Awesome. Well, thank you so much, Mac, for coming on. And I look forward to continuing this conversation into the future
28:58
Definitely. Thanks again for having me on. Appreciate it. I hope you learned a lot and got a lot of value from our conversation
29:04
If so, feel free to drop a like. And if you've decided you'd like to try musician guidance for yourself
29:09
you can actually join for a discount when you sign up through my link
29:13
which is Orpheus Audio Academy dot com slash guidance. And don't forget, you can actually get started with their starter pack for free
29:21
Let me know if you have any questions in the comments below. And if you want more help with growing your fan base online
29:25
and then check out my playlist on the screen right now, which has a bunch of videos in it that can help you grow your fan base
29:30
Have a great day and keep creating
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